It's a weird day

[drwex]

It's a weird day when multiple people take the time to thank me for being the voice of reason. You all who know me can stop laughing now. Any minute. I'll wait.

I've been posting a good deal in both sunspiral's LJ and shadesong's LJ. I'm glad to be able to have discussions with both of them. This is where I stand:

- Judah is a self-admitted abuser and has a restraining order against him for domestic violence and other related offenses. As such, I do not want him at my house and I am probably not comfortable going to other parties where he is welcome. That might change in the future; or, maybe not. I'm in new territory here and the Magic 8 Ball is cloudy.

- My comfort is about me and my loved ones. It's not a standard for other private individuals to follow. I am not the boss of you (unless you're one of my kids and they have some vehement objections to my Boss status anyway).

- When I go to a party I expect to follow the hosts' rules. When people come to my parties I'd like them to follow my rules, which are often summarized as "don't piss off the hosts." Part of why Judah is not welcome is because I'm so angry at what he did. I want him to be banned from other events where I might attend because I have my visceral, fist-clenching furious reaction to imagining someone doing to my loved ones what he did to Shira.

- I recognize that my response to the situation is seated in a position of vast privilege, including white, able, cis-male, wealth privilege. I also don't know what to do with that, except try to keep it in mind when I write or speak.

- There are people I like, love, and respect, on all sides of this debate. I am struggling to understand how these people I respect have reasoned to the positions they hold. I think we have now a large rift in the circle of people I like and if people do not understand each other there is no hope for dialog. Because this is all about me, I feel like I want to understand all the sides first.

- I am currently using the theoretical basis of framing ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(social_sciences) ) to think about this. I believe we have a framing problem, not a Rashomon problem. In Rashomon, every witness tells their own version of events, and no two of them agree on all the facts. In this situation I think pretty much everyone agrees on the facts, but is using different framings to interpret those facts.

- I have a long and friendly relationship with Scott & Rachel. I have a much shorter acquaintanceship with Shira and even less so with Adam but I'd like to think that Shira and I are at least on friendly terms.

- I am intensely sad that this situation has now become a conflict between these households when I think that conflict was entirely avoidable. I see people responding to perceived attacks on each of these people, being protective of the people they love. I understand that, deeply. I continue to believe that this level of self- and other-protectiveness is preventing many people from recognizing the framing differences.

- We accuse each other of lies, deceptions, exaggerations, denials, etc. But I think these things are all distractions from the core issues. I care about how you treat the people who commit these violent acts; how you treat the people who are the victims of these acts; how you treat the people who have to deal with the consequences of these acts; and how you treat the people who are trying to navigate these unknown and shark-infested waters. I reject any formulation that says, "It's simple, just XYZ." It's not simple.

- I would like to be able to focus on the problems that having Judah in the social circle brings and how we can deal with that. Unfortunately the grounds have shifted and people are choosing up sides in a wholly unnecessary war. Perhaps I'm falling into a geek fallacy, but I also see this as an important test case. If we cannot find a way to work with each other - despite our different frameworks - to deal with an abuser and social gatherings then we have a pretty deep problem.

Comments

[drwex]

I have three sets of information. I was present when the events transpired, so I have my own timeline. I have information that is publicly shared - you can read Song's LJ for example - and I have information that has been privately shared.

As above, however, I think that focusing on particulars of a timeline and such it makes me feel like the focus would then be on the he-said/she-said and the conflict between Song and Scott. Those are things I consider a distraction and would rather not further discuss. I think both sides have been clear on their positions and I don't have anything significant to add.

[sparr0.livejournal.com]

Sadly I can't find the information in question, which is crucial to my(?) interpretation of the appropriateness of her actions, in any of the public posts. Thanks for the response, at least.

[drwex]

What is the information you seek, and what stops you asking Song directly?

[sparr0.livejournal.com]

I want to know if she knew, or could have known, that Scott did not want the police present before she said they would be. I don't know in which venues the party policies were posted, or when that section was added to them.

I don't know her, and asking her is likely far more intrusive than asking less-involved third parties.

[ron_newman]

If you visit sunspiral's LJ and look at his posts that have announced each of the recent parties, you'll see the guidelines or policies that he has used in the past. They are similar to the e-mail announcements that he has sent out to various lists in advance of the parties.

[sparr0.livejournal.com]

I know. I've also checked the emails that he sent regarding the parties, which is how I found out about them. I did not realize he used LJ or posted his parties here until today.

[ron_newman]

And I think the host didn't until now have "party policies on bringing police to their house" because he never expected to ever need such policies. If I were hosting a party, it would not occur to me, either.

[drwex]

I did not know the hosts' attitude toward the police prior to this, so I can reasonably infer that others did not.

To say 'could have known' is to return to the issue of what both sides could have done and I think there's fair agreement that direct communication would have been preferable. But again, I don't think this is adding anything new to the discussion.

[rivermyst.livejournal.com]

First of all, I want to say that I actually do know you and your wife, from several years ago at various parties, and you may or may not remember me. (I was known as River) It is probable that you know my partner, Steve Blake. I moved out of the Boston area about 7 years ago and sort of dropped off the face of the earth. I have meet Scott a few times, my partner knows him pretty well from art stuff at Arisia. I have never been to one of his parties (always wanted to make it to one, he's on my LJ friends list, so I always see the invites) I don't believe I have ever met Song.

Everything that has transpired on the edge of my circle has sort of left me with that "can't look away" feeling, such as you get passing a bad accident, and is dredging up a lot of memories, both of my abusive past and my experience with various "creepers" and unsavory characters in our larger community, and the community's response to them at the time.

I am fascinated, not so much by the events that transpired, but by the amazing conversation that has ensued as a result. I don't think this conversation would have happened even a few short years ago. I am inspired, and although many feel as if it has been a complete fiasco, I'm not seeing it that way--I am seeing people who disagree trying hard to understand, and I don't think they are really as far apart as it seems at times.
Some may see a huge rift in the community and perhaps there is, but it will cycle around, people will adjust, things always change--its a process--the rift will heal. There may be scars but there always are.

There is more I would like to say, having to do with distrust of police, but I'm uncertain about posting it in a public forum...may I send it to you privately and let you decide? It may or may not be helpful to consider. I had typed a couple of more paragraphs but thought better of just posting it willy nilly :)
Thank you for this thoughtful conversation.

[drwex]

Thank you for stopping by. You are welcome to post or send me email as you see fit. Do you have my gmail address?

As to our response... as a community I think we've gotten better, but it's been a slow and painful process. There are lots of factors, some good (new, younger people coming in who've been raised and trained differently) and some bad (e.g. the incident at Readercon two years ago that really forced the local SF/F fan community to take a harder and more troubled look at itself).

I think you can see some of that in the discussion where there is a faction of people (all women, so far as I've seen) who are saying "YES! WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO POINT OUT THIS PROBLEM FOR YEARS!" which is a totally valid point but sometimes people like me take a moment to get over being smacked in the head.

Likewise I see a split in attitudes toward police. The older generation grew up distrusting the police. Either we were children of Kent State or children of civil disobedience - anti-Vietnam, anti-Reagan, anti-nuke. Then there was a period where things seemed to be getting better and the people brought up in that time have a more positive attitude toward police, so far as I can see.

Now? Now we're living in the era of Occupy, when conventionally attractive white women get beat, corralled, and maced on YouTube. We're living in the era of militarized police and Snowden and a big chunk of the youngest generation are once again looking at the police with fear.

[rivermyst.livejournal.com]

I sent you a message here on LJ and did include my email address if you prefer to respond there.

And I couldn't agree more. It's not simple. I understand both sides. It is sometimes hard to *really* get both side's fears and I may have more insight than many--not about this exact circumstance, but my life experiences help me really identify with both sides.
This type of situation will occur again and again. Resolving it won't always be simple. It helps if everyone knows that.