Musing on guilt (second in a series)

[drwex]

Once again, this is a think piece intended both to help me record things in my head for later reference and to encourage the sharing of opinions and experiences by my readers. I found the dialog last time incredibly helpful, not least in showing how I was mis-stating things and mis-reading people.

Thesis: guilt is an illusion. There is no such thing, really. I've been fond of saying that "no one can make you feel guilty nonconsensually" and I still believe that. It requires at the very least collusion if not outright acquiescence on my part for someone else to engender feelings of guilt in me. If someone says "I can't believe you _did_ that!" and I start feeling guilty then I have at least somewhat bought into the hypotheses that (a) I shouldn't have done that, and (b) no one who behaves in the right/proper/appropriate manner would do so. And then I further buy into the judgment that the proper response to committing such a misbehavior is shame, and guilt.

If I refused a or b or the consequent I would likely not feel guilty. I might feel regret, particularly if my action caused harm, but not guilt.

So, why do I/we do this? I think it's because we're not dealing with our angers. Guilt is misplaced anger.

I may be angry with myself for behaving in ways I know I should not. I may be angry at the person who points my bad behavior out to me, or who demands I make recompense. I may be angry with a third party; for example, someone who is harmed or frightened by what I intended as a jest or prank. Because I don't admit, deal with, experience, or (yes, sweetmmeblue I'll say it) _process_ my anger properly it hides itself in clothing of guilt.

Being guilty is a form of self-punishment and we learn (I'm watching my kids learn it now) that punishing ourselves is a way of trying to dodge punishment from adults, or our superiors. Bad behavior is punished, and if people are angry or otherwise fail to be contrite after bad behavior we punish them more. The lesson we learn is to hide angers inside our guilts.

An interesting question in here is: If we _did_ learn to deal with our angers, would we be better at shedding our guilts? I think so. I think this has the potential to be incredibly productive.

Comments

[feste-sylvain.livejournal.com]

I'd like to make some kind of distinction between "feeling guilty" and "being guilty". If, for example, I were sufficiently sociopathic to harm someone in what I felt was a justified manner, I may "be guilty" of committing the harmful act and yet not "feel guilty" about it at all.

(The sitcom "My Name Is Earl" is about a guy who's been a harmful asshole all his life, but has had an epiphany about karma, and is now setting about making up for all of the bad things he's ever done. Hilarity ensues.)

To buy into someone's accusation and "feel guilty" about it, you have to agree on some level that you "are guilty". If the accusation is unfounded (i.e. if you didn't do the act at all), you probably won't feel guilt; if the accusation is unfounded (i.e. if the act truly was wholly justified), you probably won't feel guilt.

Gray areas are usually in the realm of "side effects", where you had to perform the harmful act, but hadn't wholly considered all of the consequences.

[drwex]

Thanks. I am distinctly talking about feelings here, so "feeling guilty." The notion of "being" guilty involves a post-emotional judgement system that I'm not up to examining right now. I just want to spend some time poking around in feelings.

I agree that consenting to guilt involves a shared judgement of right and wrong or perhaps simply a sense that the other person knows more or is in a superior judgemental position.

[srl.livejournal.com]

"I agree that consenting to guilt involves a shared judgement of right and wrong or perhaps simply a sense that the other person knows more or is in a superior judgemental position."

Right; and there's a whole host of situations in which A and B were involved in an unpleasant situation where both made hard choices and did what they felt was appropriate. A feels wronged and argues that B (is/should feel) guilty. Is B actually guilty? Maybe, maybe not. Should B feel guilty? Maybe, maybe not.

[drwex]

I agree and that's why I'm simply trying to explore what the emotional reactions are, not the judgements about them. For example, there's clearly "justifiable" anger and "unjust" anger. Both are anger feelings; we evaluate them to get a label to apply to the anger.