PvP with teh gay (marriage)

[drwex]

I've avoided posting much because I'm both sad and frustrated and the people I'm sad about and frustrated at don't read this LJ. I'm sad that we still want to subject fundamental civil liberties to popular vote, and frustrated that people will vote to take those liberties away if given the chance.

I'm also sad and frustrated that more people didn't think the issue was important enough to come out and vote about. Losing 53-47 sucks. It sucks more when you lose 53-47 with less than half the potential electorate giving enough of a damn to get up and vote. I believe that most people are generally fair-minded and getting evidence to the contrary shoved in my face repeatedly leads to me being VERY cranky.

Comments

[c1.livejournal.com]

So what, exactly, is a fundamental civil liberty? What are the civil liberties that we don't yet enjoy-- with legal protections-- that need to be protected?

It could be a sign that there are people who aren't yet on the bandwagon that marriage qualifies as a civil liberty. (This would be more directed at the half of the electorate that stayed home, rather than what I suspect are fundies who turned out in droves to pull the handle for one side or the other.)

Fundamental liberties

[drwex]

I think that in this case it's a shorthand for the liberties associated with building a shared life and the things that go along with shared lives, primarily property and family. Those rights might be conferrable to a non-married male partner, but only through laborious work and under subject to challenge. In a marriage arrangement it's automatic and the burden of proof shifts.

For example, in a hetero marriage if anything happens to me my wife gets automatic and immediate custody of the children and gets to make all decisions on their wellbeing and upraising. For someone to challenge that requires them to meet a very high standard of proof. Contrariwise, the surviving spouse of a male-male couple that doesn't have marriage protections has to go through adoption and custody hurdles and even then the burden is on him to prove that he's more fit than, say, the deceased man's parents.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

It could be a sign that there are people who aren't yet on the bandwagon that marriage qualifies as a civil liberty

Then they're ignoring Loving v. Virginia.

[dpolicar]

It could be a sign that there are people who aren't yet on the bandwagon that marriage qualifies as a civil liberty.

And also not on the bandwagon that providing equality of opportunity to our citizens is a good idea.

[ckd]

I'm really unhappy about the Maine results.

I'm also unhappy that Washington's R71 was anything near close, giving the lie to everyone who claims it's just about the word "marriage" and not about keeping rights away from same-sex couples. (Though I plan to throw it in the face of the next person who tries that argument with me. "It's just about the definition of 'marriage'? Why wasn't R71 an 80% blowout, then?")

[entrope.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of people in Maine that went out and voted. In fact, I personally know of no equality supporters in Maine that didn't vote, and a huge amount of them engaged in tireless and hardcore activism.

I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse. On the one hand, apathy sucks. On the other hand, if the progressives really did get out the vote, then it sucks even worse that Maine really is that intolerant. ARGHHHHH.

It makes me feel worse

[drwex]

When we lost in CA there was a good argument to be made that the pro-equality camp had not done enough, had done things wrong, had been too complacent, etc. I don't think that was the case in ME and we lost anyway. That feels very bad.

Re: It makes me feel worse

[entrope.livejournal.com]

When I say "I don't feel physically safe in the town I grew up in," what I mean is now quantifiable to an extent.

71.71% of voters in the town I grew up in voted against marriage equality. That takes into account an unusually high turnout of progressive voters.

Re: It makes me feel worse

[drwex]

Oh man that sucks. I'm sorry.

[keyne.livejournal.com]

Have you seen this (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=168704449070)?

I haven't see the FB page, but I've seen the idea

[drwex]

I think it's a poorly placed meme. Maine is consistently the, or one of the, least religious states in the US. The opposition there is not significantly religiously based.

Also, when was the last time you saw a non-Jew who cared about the laws of kosher? They've got their explanations all ready for why they're not obliged to follow that bit of the Bible.

[chienne-folle.livejournal.com]

I believe that most people are generally fair-minded and getting evidence to the contrary shoved in my face repeatedly leads to me being VERY cranky.

*nod* *nod* *nod* *nod* *nod* *nod* *nod* *nod* *head falls off*