QotD, musings

[drwex]

This passed across my screen today:

The primary task of a useful teacher is to teach his students to recognize 'inconvenient' facts

The speaker is Max Weber, turn-of-the(last)-century German sociologist and economist. If you don't understand why America is so materialistic you haven't read enough Weber.

I think the quote applies outside of teaching. It's kind of a nice summation of much of how I look at life.

Much elided here. Need thinking. Commentary welcome.

Comments

[taura-g.livejournal.com]

Is it really outside of "teaching" or is it outside of "classroom teaching"? The teachers in our life are not just the ones that we meet in school and whether they are aware of it or not we are their students.

I think that the quote does apply to the broader classroom of life and learning to recognize that which we may want to ignore because it is unpleasant or painful.

In that broader classroom it is meeting challenges head-on and resolving them that (IMHO) brings the greatest satisfactions. Not learning to recognize those "inconvenient" facts would seem to lead to a life with your head in the sand. Those who would teach us to pull our heads out of the sand are those who would teach us to get out and really *live* life.

[drwex]

I agree with all that you've said, but insofar as I think it applies to me I think it sounds egotistical and self-important. I oscillate between the poles of "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" and "people ought to be able to leave school behind them when they choose."

Just because _I_ believe one of the purposes of life is learning (and the corollaries of that) doesn't mean that's everyone's belief.

[taura-g.livejournal.com]

Well, it is a bit egotistical if you are going to assume that you will always be in the role of "teacher". But most of us play both roles at one time or another in our lives. If you believe one of the purposes of life is learning than one corollary of that is that one is always a student, yes?

And yes, I was speaking in the realms of my own beliefs as well (don't we always?). And I am the last person to say that my beliefs are the only right ones.

[sweetmmeblue.livejournal.com]

I wonder what he means by "inconvinient" and is there a more modern equivalent that has the right connotation?

[caulay.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure he means the word in the current usage.

"Inconvenient facts" are those that you do not want to see. The ones that get in the way of your pet theory. The things that you must account for before your idea is really complete.

"Inconvenient facts" are also those that other people do not want you to see, that they would prefer be swept under the rug and not noticed, so no one can call them on the load of bull they are peddling.

[catness.livejournal.com]

It's definitely good to be able to recognize 'inconvenient' facts, and I believe it's also a positive thing to be guided in that direction, if it's not something you normally do or are failing to do when you should. However, the kind of person who considers it their mission and/or duty to point out such 'inconvenient' facts is no fun at parties.

[dpolicar]

True.
OTOH, pointing them out against resistence isn't a particularly good way to teach the skill of recognizing them out.
Activist and teacher are not the same role, though one person can certainly play them both.

[drwex]

I think you've hit on a key point, so I'm going to think out loud in response. I can see what you wrote as pointing at one end of a spectrum that stretches from an overt formal classroom to an explicit relaxed social situation. And consider that the meaning of "teacher" isn't constant along that spectrum.

Looked at another way, is "teacher" a role, or a relationship?

American society is almost unique in its informal relationship to teachers. In other cultures it's quite natural address someone as "Herr Professor" or "Sensei" no matter where one encounters them, and to treat them as ?being in that mode?/?being that thing? all the time. This may include a certain formality, but for my purposes I want to think about the implication that treating someone that way implies, on the students' parts, a willingness to learn wherever, whenever, however learning is presented. We might revisit taura_g's concept of the "classroom of life" and muse on the notion of experience-centric learning versus or complementary to fact-centric learning.

No conclusions, just more thinking to do...

At What Stage of Learning?

[feste-sylvain.livejournal.com]

It really depends on the stage of development of the pupil. Given that I have a 10-year-old and a 6-year-old, it first becomes necessary to teach them which facts are relevent to what they're looking at.

What Weber is talking about is a refinement of this: there exist relevent facts which should not be overlooked or dismissed.

But right now, I'm still getting my kids to overlook irrelevent facts. They haven't yet got to the point where they can trim the world down to what they need to address an issue.

[gentlescholar.livejournal.com]

That's a useful task, but far from primary.

Teach them that there are things out there to learn.
Teach them to want to learn.
Teach them to ask questions.
Teach them where answers are sometimes found.
Teach them that mistakes exist everywhere.
Teach them the difference between fact and opinion.

Then you can sit down to the details, such as recognizing inconvenient facts.