More on sending messages

[drwex]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/inside-the-investigation-of-the-boston-marathon-bombing/2013/04/20/19d8c322-a8ff-11e2-b029-8fb7e977ef71_story.html

The Post story is the first I've seen that puts together the struggle over when and how the bombing suspects were identified - how both social media and face recognition technology failed - and how the choice to release the official images was a message with multiple targets.

ETA: http://www.popehat.com/2013/04/20/security-theater-martial-law-and-a-tale-that-trumps-every-cop-and-donut-joke-youve-ever-heard/

Popehat blog has a fairly biting commentary on the lockdown, including pointing out that the second suspect was found after the lockdown was lifted and people were allowed to go outside and look around.

Comments

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

Wex, I don't know where those people started from, but from here? I *did* go to the hospital for cancer treatments on Friday, one of the various hospitals that the suspect went to later in the evening. I stopped in front of a cop to give change to a homeless guy. I was questioned, once, by an unarmed hospital security guard right outside the parking garage. It wasn't spectacularly useful for me to have dragged myself out to the hospital, because they made the decision to close the infusion unit for the afternoon while I was on the road. I was able, by a lot of fast talking, to convince them to squeeze me into the morning schedule for radiation.

I am fully aware that my neck of these woods was different then Watertown or Harvard Square, where police had far more immediate and concrete concerns.

For most people, the shelter in place "order" was a polite request from the governor, enforced by nothing. Calling this martial law is hyperbolic and hysterical. The Popehat blog you link leaves out the detail that the suspect had spent Thursday evenings involved in a carjacking, a shootout, and a police chase in which he threw bombs. I respect the governor for making the call to limit his targets.

[drwex]

So noted. Popehat tends to be hyperbolic for effect (and Clark is moreso than Ken), but I think his point is spot-on. Other cities have suffered significant criminal violence without this degree of (over)reaction. And it is the case that the suspect was not caught until the authorities lifted the restrictions.

The notion of authorities issuing a "polite request" backed up by large numbers of armed police is an interesting one. I don't think I, or most others, saw it as a polite request - it appeared to be an order issued by authorities, backed up by the potential threat of legal action.

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

Where I was, it was a polite request backed by nothing at all. So the interesting notion of a polite request backed by force of arms is hugely theoretical.

May I say how tired I am of the "four deaths in Detroit is just Tuesday" line? What do they call a dozen people with legs blown off in Detroit? And if four homicides is, indeed, an ordinary day in Detroit, that's an unspeakable amount of grief, loss and fear for a city to be living with, and indicates an overwhelming societal failure.

[drwex]

I accept that your experience is different from those repeated to me. I'm glad you had a better experience.

I think the question of societal failure is orthogonal to the question of whether this was an overreaction. But perhaps not. I could argue it either way.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

After a horrific bombing perpetrated by two vile criminals, an outcry against the over-reach and tacticalization of police and federal law enforcement seemed fully reasonable ... to militia organizations 18 years ago. And they were called paranoid fear mongers.

I definitely think this an issue of (more than mere) semantics - where you and popehat use the term "martial law" I would use "police state", and they are two very different things, even in how they walk and talk, whether it looks like a duck or an angry goose.


These trivial differences, as I have seen some call them, between my definition of martial law and that of a police state, are very important differences to me, as someone involved in military llaw enforcement.

The MPs I do planning and operations orders for, CANNOT, except in very limited, hard to exist, exigent circumstances, be involved in law enforcement on a civilian populace, as they are all federal soldiers.

The National Guard is a very different legal story, and from what I have heard, were used only as outer security for the impacted areas, not for actual arrests (apprehensions in military terms) or searches.

Additionally, yes, suspect #2 was found AFTER the SIP order was lifted ... however, how likely was he to have attempted to walk around during the SIP?

[drwex]

You seem to be very focused on a term, rather than on what I see as the content of the column. That's your right, of course, but it's not something I feel is worth extensive argument unless we're in agreement on what I think are the fundamental questions.

As to the question of whether the suspect moved around during the SIP that's trivially true. He didn't teleport to that hiding place - he walked there during the SIP. It was widely reported that the suspect "escaped on foot" during the SIP. It's unclear to me what your point is in raising this question.

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

The question of societal failure is totally beside the point. The question I'm looking at is "Could the ass at popehat have come up with anything tackier or more callous then that line about Detroit?"

I hope the answer's no, but I suspect not.