It's a weird day

[drwex]

It's a weird day when multiple people take the time to thank me for being the voice of reason. You all who know me can stop laughing now. Any minute. I'll wait.

I've been posting a good deal in both sunspiral's LJ and shadesong's LJ. I'm glad to be able to have discussions with both of them. This is where I stand:

- Judah is a self-admitted abuser and has a restraining order against him for domestic violence and other related offenses. As such, I do not want him at my house and I am probably not comfortable going to other parties where he is welcome. That might change in the future; or, maybe not. I'm in new territory here and the Magic 8 Ball is cloudy.

- My comfort is about me and my loved ones. It's not a standard for other private individuals to follow. I am not the boss of you (unless you're one of my kids and they have some vehement objections to my Boss status anyway).

- When I go to a party I expect to follow the hosts' rules. When people come to my parties I'd like them to follow my rules, which are often summarized as "don't piss off the hosts." Part of why Judah is not welcome is because I'm so angry at what he did. I want him to be banned from other events where I might attend because I have my visceral, fist-clenching furious reaction to imagining someone doing to my loved ones what he did to Shira.

- I recognize that my response to the situation is seated in a position of vast privilege, including white, able, cis-male, wealth privilege. I also don't know what to do with that, except try to keep it in mind when I write or speak.

- There are people I like, love, and respect, on all sides of this debate. I am struggling to understand how these people I respect have reasoned to the positions they hold. I think we have now a large rift in the circle of people I like and if people do not understand each other there is no hope for dialog. Because this is all about me, I feel like I want to understand all the sides first.

- I am currently using the theoretical basis of framing ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(social_sciences) ) to think about this. I believe we have a framing problem, not a Rashomon problem. In Rashomon, every witness tells their own version of events, and no two of them agree on all the facts. In this situation I think pretty much everyone agrees on the facts, but is using different framings to interpret those facts.

- I have a long and friendly relationship with Scott & Rachel. I have a much shorter acquaintanceship with Shira and even less so with Adam but I'd like to think that Shira and I are at least on friendly terms.

- I am intensely sad that this situation has now become a conflict between these households when I think that conflict was entirely avoidable. I see people responding to perceived attacks on each of these people, being protective of the people they love. I understand that, deeply. I continue to believe that this level of self- and other-protectiveness is preventing many people from recognizing the framing differences.

- We accuse each other of lies, deceptions, exaggerations, denials, etc. But I think these things are all distractions from the core issues. I care about how you treat the people who commit these violent acts; how you treat the people who are the victims of these acts; how you treat the people who have to deal with the consequences of these acts; and how you treat the people who are trying to navigate these unknown and shark-infested waters. I reject any formulation that says, "It's simple, just XYZ." It's not simple.

- I would like to be able to focus on the problems that having Judah in the social circle brings and how we can deal with that. Unfortunately the grounds have shifted and people are choosing up sides in a wholly unnecessary war. Perhaps I'm falling into a geek fallacy, but I also see this as an important test case. If we cannot find a way to work with each other - despite our different frameworks - to deal with an abuser and social gatherings then we have a pretty deep problem.

Comments

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

This is an excellent post and I agree with you on all of it.

[rigel.livejournal.com]

Holy mother of Bob, thank you for this.

Just . . . yes. Yes, this. Yes to all of it. Thank you.

I'm nearly tempted to ask if I link to or repost (with attribution, natch) the whole of this, because it so strongly resonates with my feelings on the topic.

[tigira.livejournal.com]

This is the first I've been able to see LJ for the last two days. I seem to have missed a lot, and I'm glad that the first post I saw was your "voice of reason."

Thank you.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying this. I haven't been quite as engaged in it, and was in Alaska when the party happened, but what you have had to say has helped me understand.

[davesmusictank.livejournal.com]

A truly engaging post and for that i have friended you.

[shades-of-nyx.livejournal.com]

Yup, you're the sane one here!

[swashbucklr]

Thanks for writing this.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Joining the chorus of thanks for writing and sharing this, and yeah, I agree with all of it.

[trowa-barton.livejournal.com]

Logical

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

Watching from DC it has been kinda astonishing and I completely agree with you re framing

[whitebird.livejournal.com]

I've been impressed with your writing and commentary on this issue, but not surprised.

[mzrowan.livejournal.com]

To add some thinking to the framing issue: it seems to me like both sides are looking at this incident from their side not as a one-off, but as a threat to their ongoing life(style) -- but they're both thinking of it as a one-off for the *other* side.

[aelscha.livejournal.com]

I've been following this although not commenting (I think I'm on the outskirts of the community that's most centrally affected), and I've also really appreciated your attempts to understand why totally reasonable people are so at odds here. It's definitely clarified some of my thinking.

[felisdemens.livejournal.com]

This is extremely cogent and well communicated.

[signsoflife.livejournal.com]

Wex, I basically wound up reading your recent post on the matter by accident. I found it much more bearable than the main thread, and I was impressed by the quality and tone of your post and the difficult comment threads it spawned.

I noticed that you were struggling with "tone argument" issues -- I think I have some observations that may be useful to you, if you're up for that kind of feedback right now.

[(Anonymous)]

Hi. I don't know you, or anyone involved (I wandered in because this has all hit the front page of LJ) but I did want to add to the thanks for trying to be a moderating voice in the whole affair. It's a rare enough behaviour these days and it should be applauded when seen.

[taura-g.livejournal.com]

Still reading ... just so you know.

[mizarchivist]

Pebble

[miss-chance.livejournal.com]

You know, Wex, five years ago I might have shared your surprise at your role as a voice of reason. These days, not so surprising.

*hug*

[ron_newman]

I'm reading all of this, at shadesong's suggestion, but I don't have anything to add right now that hasn't already been said better by either drwex or other folks here.

I would like to see a gradual re-meeting of the minds between the now-opposing participants.

[archangelwells.livejournal.com]

1) Thank you for writing this. You seem to have a useful framing of the situation.

2) I see a third group, which potentially seems to fall more on 'Song's side of things, but many of the third group say they have little/no personal knowledge of 'Song. That third group being:
"I am responding emotionally to finding out that a space I thought was safe, and I thought was somewhere threats would be handled appropriately, is not somewhere that is safe *for me* and where threats *to me* will be handled in a way that makes *me feel safe*."

I have to say that, despite my ongoing friendship and support of 'Song, I fall more strongly into that group than I do into a "'Song v. Scott" narrative. I have never been to one of these parties because I don't know the hosts well - I've met them at a couple cons, and I think I gave them my email, but I don't know them well. These are large parties, and I know my limits in social situations, and I don't trust large gatherings. At a con, I have (in theory) a way to report, and a process that will (again, in theory) protect me. I don't have that at a private party, especially as someone the hosts *don't* know well. What I've gotten from Scott's responses is that the hosts will side with people they like over people they are less familiar with. I agree with you that the rule of "don't piss off the hosts" is the salient one for Scott and Rachel, and that is not one that I personally feel safe attending their parties under.

[marius23.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to add my echo that I very much appreciate the time and effort you've put into providing diplomacy to help keep this socially conflict from turning into, as you put it, "a wholly unnecessary war." In particular, I appreciate having a place that feels like a very serious but still calm conversation rather than a "he said, she said" shouting match. Thank you.

[oneagain.livejournal.com]

*Adding my praise to the overall tone of the thread and the care given it, adding my prayers that this rift can eventually be healed*

[mud-puppy.livejournal.com]

I had no idea any of this was or did happen until this morning. I've been so out of the social sphere taking care of an adorable toddler :P I hope it's ok for me to comment here since I wasn't directly involved, but I just had to say two things.

First, I want to say Wex that you deserve a freaking medal for putting yourself out there and like this. I haven't read all of the various posts, comments and re-posts.. etc.. but from what I have read, you are one of the few people who has kept your cool and kept people communicating in a respectful and thoughtful way.

Second, while I see myself on the fringe of the community/communities here, I am very sad to see the community fracture again. I suppose that's the ebb and flow of community, but I still find it sad to witness.

Anyways, thank you for all you've done.

[achinhibitor.livejournal.com]

I think we have now a large rift in the circle of people

It's only a rift if we demand that others agree with us.

I care about how you treat the people who commit these violent acts; how you treat the people who are the victims of these acts; how you treat the people who have to deal with the consequences of these acts; and how you treat the people who are trying to navigate these unknown and shark-infested waters.

What standards do you demand of others in regard to how they treat [etc.]? What sanctions do you impose on others who do not meet your standards? That is, is this "I care" simply a matter of you emotionally responding, or is it a matter of policing?