Continuing to talk about Age of Ultron

[drwex]

With many spoilers. Here's a negative take on the Natasha/Bruce romance angle from two women editors at blastr:
http://www.blastr.com/2015-5-4/how-avengers-age-ultron-dropped-ball-black-widow

I have to agree with them about the sterilization line. It was seriously cringe-worthy and undercut the impact of the flashback scene Scarlet Witch throws her into. That said, I still buy the romance angle and I'm OK with a woman character who gets to choose how she's close to people. She's family-friend to Clint; she's best buddies with Cap; if she's attracted to Banner then yes it's going to play into Beauty-and-the-Beast tropes but that's been part of every Hulk interaction in the comics since forever.

THAT said, where the heck is my Black Widow movie? Been wanting that since Avengers 1.

It's interesting to me that I think I'm exactly the audience these movies are aiming for. I'm revisiting beloved characters from my childhood, sharing things with my family and just plain nerding out about comics in a way I haven't in a long time. So why do I leave feeling just a little dissatisfied every time?

Comments

[chienne-folle.livejournal.com]

I imagine you're the target audience only in general demographics. I expect that you're smarter, more liberal, more thoughtful, and more insightful than the true target audience.

When I was in shrink school and was learning to give IQ tests, I practiced on someone who tested at 149. When I mentioned this in class the next day, one of my classmates said, "God, I feel so sorry for him!" When I asked why, she said, "Well, think about it -- nothing's made for him! He can't watch TV or go to the movies or listen to the radio or even read most books, because none of that stuff is made for HIM."

[dpolicar]

Totally agreed about the sterilization thing, which was just astonishingly problematic.

I was OK with the Widow/Hulk romance per se, but far less OK with it in that narrative context.

Basically it felt less organic than plot driven. That is, it didn't read to me as a genuine relationship that, yes, inevitably had a tame-the-savage-beast angle; it read to me as a we-need-a-lever-on-Banner-oh-I-know-let's-use-the-woman easy narrative.

I would have much rather seen Natasha being straight-up used as a lever on the Hulk because psychological manipulation is her thing (in fact, I would have loved a take on the Avengers where that's why she's on the team and she is handling all of them in one way or another).

Or, conversely, have seen a genuine emotional bond between Bruce and Cap because sincerity and charisma is his thing. Even granting heteronormativity as a given, not all profound emotional relationships are romantic or sexual.

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

The sterilization thing bugged.

1. I can think of ways around it. The Red Room probably tied her tubes. Girlfriend can have IVF.

2. Who the hell cares? Bruce Banner is supposed to be one of the smartest guys in the world, can he not figure out that not everyone wants children?

3. Fertility is not the key issue with dating Hulk.

I would love to see more of Natasha' s personal life, and choices. I feel like she was in this movie to make sure it didn't go all slash fic.

[drwex]

in re 2: Banner's supposedly one of the world's best bioscientists (Stark says as much). So he's got to know all this stuff.

That said, I took it at a different level. Banner's problem isn't related to IVF. Banner fears birthing another monster. She's trying to reassure him that she can't conceive so boinking is totally OK, condom slippage or no. So I do see fertility as a key issue (for Banner at least).

It's just badly played. What makes it doubly bad is how jarring it is. The scene (in my head) plays well on an emotional level. What makes Natasha work is that she's attracted to, and maybe even in love with, both Banner and Hulk. She doesn't hate-fear the beast the way others do. She's got a healthy level of caution, sure. And Banner is (I think) attracted to someone who doesn't hold onto illusions about what he is or what he can be. If you'd been that lonely all your life and suddenly you found someone who really saw you and accepted you then I can absolutely see that being a major emotional rush.

So in my head it's about the emotions and thoughts the two of them have - when it drops into PiVsexland I was all like "Hunh, what?"

[coraline]

Some commentary on the romance,a buck on other things, the vast majority of which I agree with:

I really miss the days when the weirdest thing science created was me: http://sovay.livejournal.com/686481.html

[drwex]

Epic - thanks for the link. In my summary of "this is the movie where the women tell the men things" I missed how the twins' powers are first described in detail then summed up when it's clear that the woman doing the talking is WAY smarter than the man doing the listening.

[coraline]

sovay is awesome, and just started doing a patreon to support her movie reviews. I don't even watch many movies but I read her writing for the analysis and the beauty of it.

[drwex]

hmm, will friend and follow. Thanks for the tip!

[minkrose]

Ooo, very helpful. And I mostly know of sovay because her husband is one of my favorite humans; I keep meaning to get to know her better, and movie reviews seem like a great place to start :-) yay

[drwex]

One of you should introduce me. The world is a very small place but I still don't know enough of it.

[weegoddess.livejournal.com]

I tabbed this post because I was curious what other folks thought. Interesting reading.

Personally? While I was annoyed by the sterilization line, it did ring true for me because this is how many women (I would venture to say 'most women') are programmed from childhood in US culture. I say this as a little girl who grew up in the US and who is constantly bombarded with can only come across as sanctimony for breeding. If you can't (or worse, if you choose not to) have children, you're some kind of monster, or at least some kind of 'other'.

It's one person's observations and likely says as much about the observer as the observed.