For the Firefly nerds

[drwex]

At Diesel last night a conversation along the following lines broke out: Would Firefly pass the Dykes to Watch Out For test?

Briefly stated, the test states that a book/show/movie should:
1. Contain more than one female character;
2. The female characters should converse; (*)
3. The topic should be something other than the men. (**)

(*) None of us remembered whether the test formulation forbade men to be present. My personal sense was that it was OK for the men to be around so long as the focus of the conversation was the two or more women.

(**) There was also some debate as to whether the test excluded conversations about men in general or only about specific men. So, clearly, a conversation between Zoe and Kaylee about Mal's military past wouldn't qualify. However, I assert that Kaylee and Inara talking about how to get Kaylee some booty does qualify. Since it's not about a specific man, but rather about the desires of one of the women.

There's a side question as to whether the test requires that the conversation be between two of the main characters. For example, in Our Mrs. Reynolds there's a great scene between "Saffron" and Inara that starts out as sob story, segues rapidly through seduction and into a quick fight. I don't remember what they talk about, though.

Jon asserted (and I'd agree) that if you're going to take a feminist view of literature then you have to admit that women can play any role, including villain(ess). But even thought the character reappears, she's not a "regular." So that doesn't address the core question.

So, for those of you who've seen the episodes more than I, or whose memories are better, give an example conversation that passes the test. This ought not to be so hard as it is being to me.

Comments

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

I strongly disagree on whether conversations about how to get Kaylee laid qualify. Yeah, they're about the desires of a woman, but they're about the desires of a woman to be attractive to men. I love the Kaylee/Inara interactions, but they don't qualify.

I do think, however, that it's okay for men to be around.

[drwex]

Ah, see, I don't think Kaylee's particularly concerned about being attractive to men. Witness her defense of that godawful dress. It's not about someone else's definition of attractiveness - it's about "How does Kaylee get what Kaylee wants" where wants include getting laid, fancy clothes, respect from the captain, spare parts for her engine, and eventually one specific man.

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

Kaylee does not defend the godawful dress. Defense would imply that she thought something was wrong with it. Kaylee truly and sincerely believes that the lampshade she wears to the party is beautiful. It is the dress of her dreams, and because she's a grease monkey reared on a prairie planet, she has not the faintest idea how little fashion sense she has or how much of a train wreck that thing is.

In The Train Job, when Inara is brushing Kaylee's hair, she volunteers to put it up specifically because Simon might like it. Which is indeed about someone else's definition of attractiveness.

[drwex]

I bow to your superior memory for the details.