For the Firefly nerds
Aug. 2nd, 2006 01:17 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
drwexAt Diesel last night a conversation along the following lines broke out: Would Firefly pass the Dykes to Watch Out For test?
Briefly stated, the test states that a book/show/movie should:
1. Contain more than one female character;
2. The female characters should converse; (*)
3. The topic should be something other than the men. (**)
(*) None of us remembered whether the test formulation forbade men to be present. My personal sense was that it was OK for the men to be around so long as the focus of the conversation was the two or more women.
(**) There was also some debate as to whether the test excluded conversations about men in general or only about specific men. So, clearly, a conversation between Zoe and Kaylee about Mal's military past wouldn't qualify. However, I assert that Kaylee and Inara talking about how to get Kaylee some booty does qualify. Since it's not about a specific man, but rather about the desires of one of the women.
There's a side question as to whether the test requires that the conversation be between two of the main characters. For example, in Our Mrs. Reynolds there's a great scene between "Saffron" and Inara that starts out as sob story, segues rapidly through seduction and into a quick fight. I don't remember what they talk about, though.
Jon asserted (and I'd agree) that if you're going to take a feminist view of literature then you have to admit that women can play any role, including villain(ess). But even thought the character reappears, she's not a "regular." So that doesn't address the core question.
So, for those of you who've seen the episodes more than I, or whose memories are better, give an example conversation that passes the test. This ought not to be so hard as it is being to me.
Briefly stated, the test states that a book/show/movie should:
1. Contain more than one female character;
2. The female characters should converse; (*)
3. The topic should be something other than the men. (**)
(*) None of us remembered whether the test formulation forbade men to be present. My personal sense was that it was OK for the men to be around so long as the focus of the conversation was the two or more women.
(**) There was also some debate as to whether the test excluded conversations about men in general or only about specific men. So, clearly, a conversation between Zoe and Kaylee about Mal's military past wouldn't qualify. However, I assert that Kaylee and Inara talking about how to get Kaylee some booty does qualify. Since it's not about a specific man, but rather about the desires of one of the women.
There's a side question as to whether the test requires that the conversation be between two of the main characters. For example, in Our Mrs. Reynolds there's a great scene between "Saffron" and Inara that starts out as sob story, segues rapidly through seduction and into a quick fight. I don't remember what they talk about, though.
Jon asserted (and I'd agree) that if you're going to take a feminist view of literature then you have to admit that women can play any role, including villain(ess). But even thought the character reappears, she's not a "regular." So that doesn't address the core question.
So, for those of you who've seen the episodes more than I, or whose memories are better, give an example conversation that passes the test. This ought not to be so hard as it is being to me.
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no subject
Date: 2006-08-02 06:53 pm (UTC)There are a number of occasions when Zoe says reassuring things to Kaylee, although those also reference men.
Zoe tells Kaylee the story of the grenade-loaded apples in "War Stories", which involves men, but which is not about them (it's about explosives, and Zoe's eating habits).
In "Safe", Kaylee and Inara discuss the artifacts available for sale on border planets ("It looks like it was made by somebody who yearned to see a swan.")
I'd have to go back and check, but I think there's a point where River-as-ship reassures Kaylee and gives her instructions during "Objects in Space".
The mean girls in "Shindig" talk to Kaylee about dresses.
That's all I got.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-02 07:20 pm (UTC)